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+--- Thread: Wild Fauna breeding questions (/showthread.php?tid=44432)
Wild Fauna breeding questions - Umi - October 21, 2020
So, I know that in the Guidebook Wild Fauna are treated similarly to Lone Wolves. To breed they need to meet MERs and get approval, all that jazz. This makes sense from a "we don't want parents to run off and leave baby players alone" perspective.
1. What was the discussion behind this for animals that are raised solely by the mother? If the father is a moot point, why bother with MERs? Maybe this hasn't been discussed yet?
2. How does the approval process work if the young are meant to be NPCs, then placed as adoptables when they reach maturity? What if the cubs simply die before reaching maturity, is approval still needed?
I ask these questions because for many Wild Fauna characters (including Umi here), yearly or bi-yearly breeding would be normal and expected/realistic for the species, especially since many NPC wild fauna exist in game.
RE: Wild Fauna breeding question - RIP Niamh - October 21, 2020
Great questions- and I'm happy to see some questions regarding Wild Fauna breeding and reproduction because fuzzy baby wild fauna being born in gam isn't something I've seen, I don't think? But would love to :)
ze handy dandy guidebook states:
"Keep in mind like wolves, Wild Fauna require permission in order to breed, and must breed during their normal season. In order to obtain WF breeding rights, you must contact the CMs for permission"
So for something like deer, they rut and mate in the fall so someone roleplaying a deer, we would expect them to follow that natural biological pattern for that species.
With cougars, I'm assuming some of your question concerns the amount of contribution from a father cougar, yes? And whether it be necessary to have an actual male cougar character, who meets the MERS, or are you asking if it's possible just using a NPC to do so? Considering the females do the raising on their own.
(Gives Benry a nudge)
I'm not sure if MERS would apply for solitary species who only involve the opposite gender to mate and then nothing else. But yep- she'd follow whatever is normal for a cougar, in terms of breeding season and such, not what we use for wolf puppy season :)
RE: Wild Fauna breeding questions - Umi - October 22, 2020
Thanks for answering these! They were weird little discussion points that I don't think come up super often like you mentioned :D
For my case, I'd obviously prefer an in-game male(s) (poor Benry, lol) but cats in heat aren't exactly picky so I thought I'd mention the NPC father thing.
So it sounds like if/when mountain lion mating season comes up, I can just chat with our friendly neighbourhood CMs and see what's reasonable. I'm going to assume for now that meeting MERs for the mother is necessary, even for NPC babies.
RE: Wild Fauna breeding questions - Arcturus - October 22, 2020
(October 21, 2020, 11:23 PM)Umi Wrote: So, I know that in the Guidebook Wild Fauna are treated similarly to Lone Wolves. To breed they need to meet MERs and get approval, all that jazz. This makes sense from a "we don't want parents to run off and leave baby players alone" perspective.MERs were introduced because of overwhelming player feedback they wanted to see more restrictions on who is eligible to breed. MERs are the community's answer to this, after two seasons of restrictive breeding rights (lol) did not warrant the result players were hoping for.
(October 21, 2020, 11:23 PM)Umi Wrote: 1. What was the discussion behind this for animals that are raised solely by the mother? If the father is a moot point, why bother with MERs? Maybe this hasn't been discussed yet?They are treated the same as any other character - being the sole parent was not a factor in the decision made to introduce MERs (or for that matter, the breeding requirements prior to MERs being finalized).
(October 21, 2020, 11:23 PM)Umi Wrote: 2. How does the approval process work if the young are meant to be NPCs, then placed as adoptables when they reach maturity? What if the cubs simply die before reaching maturity, is approval still needed?All conceptions of a played character require PM or CM approval first. Yes, approval would still be needed since no conception can happen without CM or PM approval. In your case, CM approval. WF have the same MER requirements as any other character.
(October 21, 2020, 11:23 PM)Umi Wrote: I ask these questions because for many Wild Fauna characters (including Umi here), yearly or bi-yearly breeding would be normal and expected/realistic for the species, especially since many NPC wild fauna exist in game.
RE: Wild Fauna breeding questions - Umi - October 22, 2020
Having MERs in place for most cases is valuable given that they come from such strong member feedback and Wolf is meant to be a member-driven roleplaying game. MERs were created because there are limited slots within packs to have puppies and too many members wanted to breed, right? This makes sense given how wolf packs normally operate (one breeding pair).
I'd like to see some member discussion on Wild Fauna in general when it comes to breeding. Since most Wild Fauna don't have this same restriction for space, MERs make less sense.
It seems like too much red tape for this scenario given that it's quite rare for Wild Fauna to even meet MERs at all, even when their players are consistent writers. Currently the only one that comes close is Benry with 64 posts. I'd like to see things open up more for Wild Fauna since retention seems to be a consistent issue.
Finally, I'll say that for some Wild Fauna, applications to breed are flat out ridiculous. For large predators it makes more sense, but what if someone had a rabbit character? They would be expected to meet MERs to make babies? What about a deer character? By the current standard, a deer character would not be able to fawn at a normal time of the year.
To be clear I am not trying to get out of meeting MERs, but I'd like to see things more open for Wild Fauna in general so the writing experience is better for everyone.
RE: Wild Fauna breeding questions - Arcturus - October 22, 2020
How do you feel it is ridiculous for a rabbit versus a bear? Wouldn’t it be equal all things considered? They both need to meet the same metric. Just trying to understand your stance there.
Is any of this because you are interested in having your character have offspring in game..? If that’s the case I’d suggest striving to meet the qualifications. They are not difficult for a dedicated character and you have plenty of time to do so.
Several WF have met the post minimum and beyond so it is obtainable!
WF are not commonly utilized by players because many of the incentives of a non-WF character are not available to them (packs, leadership, trades, etc). I haven’t heard of anyone feeling it’s because of red tape but everyone is different.
RE: Wild Fauna breeding questions - Alyx - October 22, 2020
Given the sheer rarity of Wild Fauna, the fact that different species adhere to their own (different) breeding frequencies and time of year compared to wolves, and there being a virtually unlimited number of Wild Fauna slots (whereas there are a limited number of puppy slots), I don't see why Wild Fauna should have MERs at all. I do think they should need a fellow Wild Fauna of the same species to be able to breed even if it's a species that doesn't require much or any involvement from one parent, because inherently, I just don't think it's fair to use NPCs for major developments in a collaborative game.
But the rarity of Wild Fauna means them breeding is a rare and unlikely event anyway, so I'd be in favour of leaving MERs out of the equation specifically for non-canine Wild Fauna. On that note, I think dogs and coyotes should be treated differently because they can breed with wolves and it would present a potential loophole for both parents requiring MERs if the Wild Fauna dog or coyote didn't need them.
I.e. if two pure coyotes breed, they don't require MERs because they can't take up pack pup slots, but if a coyote and a wolf breed, then they both need to meet the requirements because the pups will take up pack pup slots.
RE: Wild Fauna breeding questions - Umi - October 22, 2020
(October 22, 2020, 10:14 PM)Arcturus Wrote: How do you feel it is ridiculous for a rabbit versus a bear? Wouldn’t it be equal all things considered? They both need to meet the same metric. Just trying to understand your stance there.I mostly meant that large predators overbreeding could present a potential problem to other players, where prey animals would not, but I meant it mostly for illustration.
(October 22, 2020, 10:14 PM)Arcturus Wrote: Is any of this because you are interested in having your character have offspring in game..? If that’s the case I’d suggest striving to meet the qualifications. They are not difficult for a dedicated character and you have plenty of time to do so.
I'm not concerned for myself, I just don't think the logic is applicable in these cases and I wanted to generate discussion :)
(October 22, 2020, 10:14 PM)Arcturus Wrote: WF are not commonly utilized by players because many of the incentives of a non-WF character are not available to them (packs, leadership, trades, etc). I haven’t heard of anyone feeling it’s because of red tape but everyone is different.
My concern here is partly because MERs are new. I'd love to see more players utilize Wild Fauna and I think adding restrictions when there isn't a problem is not great. If anything we should be adding fun incentives for Wild Fauna characters because they can't take advantage of pack-related things.
I agree that keeping MERs for canids that can interbreed with wolves makes sense.
RE: Wild Fauna breeding questions - Arcturus - October 22, 2020
(October 22, 2020, 10:36 PM)Umi Wrote:MERS are not technically new. The term “MER“ is, but prior to us rolling it out there were breeding restrictions on LW and WF (minimum of 30 days consecutive activity/minimum of 50 posts, must get CM permission first). WOLF has not had an open/unrestricted breeding season policy for a very long time.(October 22, 2020, 10:14 PM)Arcturus Wrote: How do you feel it is ridiculous for a rabbit versus a bear? Wouldn’t it be equal all things considered? They both need to meet the same metric. Just trying to understand your stance there.I mostly meant that large predators overbreeding could present a potential problem to other players, where prey animals would not, but I meant it mostly for illustration.
(October 22, 2020, 10:14 PM)Arcturus Wrote: Is any of this because you are interested in having your character have offspring in game..? If that’s the case I’d suggest striving to meet the qualifications. They are not difficult for a dedicated character and you have plenty of time to do so.
I'm not concerned for myself, I just don't think the logic is applicable in these cases and I wanted to generate discussion :)
(October 22, 2020, 10:14 PM)Arcturus Wrote: WF are not commonly utilized by players because many of the incentives of a non-WF character are not available to them (packs, leadership, trades, etc). I haven’t heard of anyone feeling it’s because of red tape but everyone is different.
My concern here is partly because MERs are new. I'd love to see more players utilize Wild Fauna and I think adding restrictions when there isn't a problem is not great. If anything we should be adding fun incentives for Wild Fauna characters because they can't take advantage of pack-related things.
I agree that keeping MERs for canids that can interbreed with wolves makes sense.
WF does have an incentive, and that’s to breed. That’s a pretty special incentive, so I (as a player) don’t personally see reasons to make WF prioritized for breeding season in light of that, because the focal point for this game is wolves.
The reason that restrictions (now called MERs) exist in the first place is because players felt that there were too many offspring and not enough players to play them, and that it was taking away from their ability to find players for their offspring. This would impact wolf characters/players if WF were allowed to breed freely since they are drawing from the same applicable pool of players. It would go right back to perpetuating the very issue that players were striving to resolve by suggesting restrictions placed on breeding. That and, many players did not like to see unestablished characters having puppies/offspring. I am not sure that sentiment has changed given the overwhelming response in our most recent poll.
I’ll take a step back for now and see what others say in the discussion. :)
RE: Wild Fauna breeding questions - Umi - October 22, 2020
Thanks for clarifying MERs - I'd also like to hear more member feedback!
Arcturus Wrote:The reason that restrictions (now called MERs) exist in the first place is because players felt that there were too many offspring and not enough players to play them, and that it was taking away from their ability to find players for their offspring. This would impact wolf characters/players if WF were allowed to breed freely since they are drawing from the same applicable pool of players. It would go right back to perpetuating the very issue that players were striving to resolve by suggesting restrictions placed on breeding.
This makes sense. What about for NPC offspring? This seems like a reasonable thing for Wild Fauna characters to have; the lack of players to play offspring then becomes a moot point.
RE: Wild Fauna breeding questions - Arcturus - October 23, 2020
For discussion and possibly some insight to the memberbase’s feelings on the subject, here was our last poll about breeding restrictions: https://wolf-rpg.com/showthread.php?tid=41672