do pups count towards forming pack?

I'm not sure if pups who meet the 50 posts and 1 month longevity count for this requirement: "A minimum of 5 members (including all leaders) must have 50+ posts and 1+ month's longevity." but I believe it could count for "There must be 8+ individual players pledged to forming the pack." because it's an individual player and it doesn't say anything about the character itself. Could someone correct me? Do they count for both, just one, or neither?