Stavanger Bay Morgenstern Balding

Heph was slightly surprised by the question, she waffled for a moment over how to answer it. After all, from her perspective she was still not very old even if she was fairly sure that she was older than this young she-wolf. There were practical answers to the question, of course, things that a wolf would likely need to do to survive - hunt, make friends. And there were, of course, things she had done that she felt were important to her - climb mountains, explore, see the sea. But was there really anything essential to all wolves? The world was always changing, wolves were always changing, if there was one answer there were at least a thousand. "Have friends, family, and let them go I suppose." She hesitated, but did wish to explain herself. "Wolves can come and go in life, but we can hardly live without connections. I guess it is important to know how to chase after them, lose them, let them go where they need to go and go where you need to go, and then still be able to chase after them again or maybe someone else." There was a shrug of her shoulders, almost unsure though as if she were questioning her own words. Tilting her head she fixed her gaze more squarely on the grey wolf "What do you think? If it is essential to living surely you are alive and have ideas of your own." A part of her wished merely to deflect, but the larger was genuinely curious. She hoped to have at least a few years left of her own life perhaps this wolf would have answers on how best to spend them.

XD this got real deep real quick

The age gap between the two was not that big, if we pay attention to numerical values only. But in terms of maturity and experience both were miles apart. Dwin was still a kid in a nearly grown-up body. Heph was an adult, who wore her coat and shoes with confidence and ease. At least it appeared so to the young Blackthorn. She sort of expected a list of things to do, so at first the more philosophical take on the question came as a bit of a disappointment. Not that she did not understand that there was a value in all that Heph had named, but she was at a stage in life, where she did not yet fully appreciate it. 

"Well, I believe that all the good and great is ahead of me. I don't know yet, if, what I have seen and done, is the most important stuff in life that all people should do," she shrugged. "I mean, my sister Dee does not consider that trench digging is either fun or useful. I think it is important and interesting. But I do not expect that you think the same way."

Heph grinned, it was a fair enough answer. She had to admit she agreed with Dwin's sister on trench-digging. Not that Heph had really ever tried to dig into anywhere too deeply. Perhaps that would change in the near future or perhaps not, but she would be glad to cover the ground always going up and down and trace it with her paws rather than shape it. A light laugh escaped her as she answered. "Well I'll have to disappoint and say I haven't ever really dug a trench so I couldn't say." She considered the conundrum further, her interest piqued. "But if everyone has a different answer and likes different things it seems kind of odd that any one could have a list." She rolled her shoulders but played along, wondering what this wolf would think of her own ideas of what had been worth doing in her life. "If I had to pick though....It looks like you've already traveled far from home, I think seeing as much as you can in your life is important but second to that there's a lot of thrill to be had in baiting out a stag or a moose, or even wrestling with a weasel." There were other quarry of course, and all creatures fought for their life, but few presented such a potent and enticing danger.

"Trenches work both ways - it offers you protection from being seen and it trips and makes any enemy fall, just in case they happen to stumble over. I suggested to dig a hu--u-u-u-u-ge and deep trench all around Brecheliant, but my parents did not approve," she shared. It was not that they had said - "no, Dwin, no trenches in our home!". They just did not think it being practical or even achievable. Besides... no one had attacked them yet and the strength of the pack lied not only in fortifications, but in the wolf-power. 

"Yeah, I don't agree with that. Moose and stags are huge. Baiting them out on my own may shorten my life expectancy," in other words Dwin did not feel confident at all in the presence of the large ungulates. They were frequent visitors of the caldera and she had had a taste of them as well, but to hunt them on her own? No. She was well aware of her small frame and how disproportionate a fight between her and hooved-kicking pairs of legs would be. "I would like to live long though. Do you?"

A large pit essentially around an entire territory. It was an interesting idea she thought after the rain it would make the entire packland essentially an islet and potentially ripe for flooding but water was its own defense and it always drew life. She could see the appeal. But she remembered too that Dwin had said there was a lake in the territory, so with the ring around it she wondered the land would form concentric circles - enticing but she thought a bit impractical.

Heph shrugged her shoulders laughing a bit "Well I'm not sure I'd recommend doing it alone, but in a group it can be fun." She might try on her own, but then again it could easily kill her. It could easily kill a wolf, that she could not deny. It seemed they had circled back to the issue of a long life versus a life worth living, something that had been gnawing on her mind for the duration. Her tail swished in consideration a she tried to think of how to say what she wanted to say. "I want to live long so I can keep experiencing new things, but if I live long because I don't then that seems to defeat the purpose?" It was a question, she had no idea why one would stay alive beyond survival instinct. But instinct told her to do a lot of things, it told her to run but it also told her to fight sometimes. There were a lot of ways to listen to it.

"I think you are right, but this works for old people, who know stuff," Dwin remarked. "I mean I do not know a lot and I think that therefore I should... I think it is wiser to keep with, what I know well," that sounded awfully wise from a young wolf like her, but then she too was a contradiction to this rule. Had she followed her own belief, she would not be out in the middle of the winter, half-starving and having no idea, where to go next. Instead she would be sitting diligently at home, getting fat and learning stuff to prepare better. But even Dwin's adventureness had red lines and hunting big game was one of them. 

"Existing just like that might not be fun," she said. "But then - I think it was my Aunt Wraen - who wanted to be a tree in her next life. To take a long rest after a turbulent life," again, dear reader, take notice that Dwin was not good at remembering facts correctly. "Maybe being a tree is a different kind of existence that we cannot appreciate, while we ourselves are being wolves," she finished her thought. "Would you like to become tree one day? Any tree at all - of your choosing?"

Heph considered that, it seemed impossible to consider - how would anyone know when they were old enough? Time passed and some things naturally occurred with that time passing, but other things were up to wolves to decide and change and go through with. Her mind returned to the conversation of the tree. Dwin had mentioned her aunt before, but not that she had had a turbulent life. In Heph's eyes that was just how life was, but she supposed she could understand the desire to rest. It was one that she was slowly grappling with herself.

So she considered the question fully, her tail swishing as she thought before she answered. "Maybe one day, perhaps a tree that could grow tall for hundreds of years and see the land change and packs come and go and fire strike and everything reborn again." That she could imagine being, if not exciting, at least interesting enough to justify such a long existence. But then again there may be things impossible to know living on the earth only as long as they did. Maybe being a tree would allow her to see those things. "But if you want to be a tree does that mean trees want to be wolves? What kind of tree would you be?" There was teasing there in her voice, but also curiosity. After all many pups who wanted to grow older wanted to grow younger again once they reached a certain age.

"I have never considered, what a tree wants. Do they have a "want" - no, that is not correct - a will to... to... feel such a thing?"' Dwin picked up the suggestion to rummage through it thoroughly. She looked to the forest line nearby and imagined for a moment all the trees watching them and discussing them - crawly, tiny creatures. Could they also talk crap behind your back? But, if they spoke in a tree language that Dwin had not mastered, would talking behind your back even apply? Cause the idea was that... you had to understand and be aware of it. 

"I dunno. I think that I would want to become a river. Or... or water - I mean, you are always on the move and you meet so many interesting creatures along the way. You can become ice and you can become a cloud. I think that water means the ultimate freedom. And... and... infinity, I think?" she guessed. Death seemed such a faraway thing that it seemed almost silly to discuss it now. "Oh, and as water I could find out, what trees and plants think, I could become part of someone else. 'cause - you know - water is everywhere and a part of everything. Kind of like a God..." Dwin was lost in thoughts for a bit. 

"Is that, what they mean, when they say that the God is in everything?" she asked with an "eureka-moment" giddiness in her voice. 

She considered the other answer with a quirk on her lips, at first it seemed a strange idea that a wolf could become water, but as she listened more the thought took more of a hold. "Hmmm well if it does get turned into rain and then back to rivers I suppose it would be endless." She agreed, it took her minute to think about it. While Heph knew that water came in all shapes and forms she had never really considered how it came to be that way. But the logic was sound and it made much more sense that everything was recycles around the earth and sky than that it spontaneously came into existence whenever clouds formed. She thought it would be fascinating too, to be able to see everything and be in all sorts of different creatures.

But God? Heph was vaguely familiar with the idea as something grand and powerful but she had never heard that phrase before. "I don't think I've ever heard that before - what exactly do you mean by God? What does that mean in everything?" God sounded more like a person than water - water did not control her from the inside or anything. The idea that there might be multiple people inside her skin made it itch uncomfortably.

There is a "History Extra podcast" on Spotify and they recently had a very interesting stream about paganic beliefs. Hence the references to differences in approach to god and religion.

"Well, mom said," and again I repeat that this does not necessarily mean Maia had ever said anything like this. Dwin was bad with remembering information sources, therefore it was easier to ascribe it to either her mom or dad. "That gods are something people believe in to explain stuff they cannot. Or... or to bring order in a very, very chaotic world," she began a very lengthy explanation, but without a preface, she could not give a proper answer to Heph's question. 

"So... and there are generally two types of gods. Ones, which are like super-controlling and telling you constantly, what to do and what not," reference to the God in the Old Testament. "And they can get very angry at you also, if you do not obey," there had been some stories that had struck Dwin as quite nasty. Say - asking a father to sacrifice his son to show that he believed in his god. Or that the same god had destroyed a whole lot of packlands, because they had chosen to live the way they wanted. 

"And then there are more practical people and gods. That means that people do not bother their gods unless they need something from them, because the gods have a lot more important stuff to deal with than to meddle in the affairs of mortals," the business-like attitude of gods felt more to Dwin's liking. IF Gods existed. "And then... then there are some sort of belief that that the god is not something that lives above and rules everything, but that it is part of every thing. I have not yet quite understood this concept, but becoming a water seems like the closest thing to it," she finished. 

There is a "History Extra podcast" on Spotify and they recently had a very interesting stream about paganic beliefs. Hence the references to differences in approach to god and religion.

"Well, mom said," and again I repeat that this does not necessarily mean Maia had ever said anything like this. Dwin was bad with remembering information sources, therefore it was easier to ascribe it to either her mom or dad. "That gods are something people believe in to explain stuff they cannot. Or... or to bring order in a very, very chaotic world," she began a very lengthy explanation, but without a preface, she could not give a proper answer to Heph's question. 

"So... and there are generally two types of gods. Ones, which are like super-controlling and telling you constantly, what to do and what not," reference to the God in the Old Testament. "And they can get very angry at you also, if you do not obey," there had been some stories that had struck Dwin as quite nasty. Say - asking a father to sacrifice his son to show that he believed in his god. Or that the same god had destroyed a whole lot of packlands, because they had chosen to live the way they wanted. 

"And then there are more practical people and gods. That means that people do not bother their gods unless they need something from them, because the gods have a lot more important stuff to deal with than to meddle in the affairs of mortals," the business-like attitude of gods felt more to Dwin's liking. IF Gods existed. "And then... then there are some sort of belief that that the god is not something that lives above and rules everything, but that it is part of every thing. I have not yet quite understood this concept, but becoming a water seems like the closest thing to it," she finished. 

Huh, Heph listened intently if a bit skeptically to the description. As the explanation veered more into pleasure and displeasure and prayers she became more familiar. Her family had not been particularly religious, but she had learned of terms likes spirits, and movers, and animators, things like that. This sounded similar. Things that they could not explain like the rain which gathered at the horizon or clouds which faded at the last minute or the wind which changed in favor of the hunt. It seemed like different places she went different wolves believed different things, but this idea of one was rather odd to her.

A thoughtful hum rose in her throat. "I see." And maybe the she-wolf did, but more likely she did not fully understand. After all even if she did understand that did not mean she would feel the possibilities and potential in those words or take them seriously. But she thought at that moment she was able to grasp the ideas. "What do you think? Sometimes I get the feeling that there are forces at work more powerful than me that control things I can't explain, but then maybe some wolves have the answers and I just don't know them yet." It was an interesting thought. Most of the answers Heph sought were new lands to walk across and new skies to walk beneath, she had never really thought to go looking for answers to those millions of other questions.

huh that's neat! philosophy of religion has never really been my area but I find all the theories fascinating

"I think that you have to believe in, what helps you to feel the most comfortable," Dwin said, liking the hands-off approach of gods far better than the totalitarian one. "And in the meantime don't be a jerk to other people. That's also important," just in case someone felt that their zone of comfort involved doing harm to others. 

"I think that it could be so that... all gods and beliefs are good and valuable, it just depends on, where you live and what you need at the time. If... I am very self-confident and have a good grip of my life - those gods, who have their own godly business to mind, would be the best. If - on ther other hand - this, I do not know for sure, but mom says that if people choose to have strict order and hierarchy and a person, who tells them, what to do, then they feel unsafe in the world. That rules and order give them peace of mind," she paused, wondering if Heph as a more experienced person in this conversation, could corroborate it. 

"But I think that a god that tells you, what to do, kind of strips you of the ability to think for yourself. If all of a sudden you lose that god - for whatever reason - I imagine people would feel seriously lost and confused and would not know, what to do with themselves," she mused. 

Heph let out a startled laugh, it was a rather straightforward answer to an issue that held depths that she could not fully fathom, but she found herself agreeing. "Yeah not being a jerk would be good. I think you've got that down, but I've met a few wolves who could use some reminding." That was actually false. Even the wolves she had met that had those tendencies, like Dreven, she had managed to get along with. Although it certainly helped that Heph simply tended to run away from wolves she did not get along with and did not stick around to suffer any sort of bad tempers, not everyone was so lucky. In that case it was indeed important not to be too much of a pain.

She hummed. Heph was of the opinion that everything changed - especially the rules. So she did not put much stock in rigid laws, perhaps change itself was inexorable, time too since that went hand in hand with the former. But certainly she did not discount the reality that some wolves lived very unchanging lives for very long times - letting the seasons flow past them like rivers around rocks. A sound of consternation rumbled through her throat. "Maybe. I think though that maybe even if you believe in all the rigid rules and try to live in a rigid way the world's not really like that so you still have to do a lot of work trying to figure out how to make all of it make sense - it's still a lot of thought just in another way. And if you don't believe in anything isn't that just another way to not have to think about things too? Just choosing not to try and figure out what's worth believing in." Heph laughed a little bit at her own expense "Besides I don't follow any uptight god and I don't think I do much thinking for myself, I don't know where half of my ideas and thoughts come from." She had been taught much by her family, had fond memories of them, some things she knew where they came from but Heph had no idea where her impressions of the world - everything that anyone might call something resembling wisdom all of that at some point just became jumbled up in her head along the way and she really did not know where it came from sometimes she doubted that it was there at all. Maybe it was just foolishness.

Heph just admitting her brain is empty tumbleweeds *most* of the time LOL

"Well, that's the beauty of an uptight god - isn't it? You do not have to think, you have to obey," Dwin pointed out the core reason, why any god would give up on her as a loyal follower. She had too many questions and gods usually did not like to be challenged and proven to be either wrong or not knowledgable enough. "Sometimes not having to think is easy, but then one day you might end up realizing that you are in a ton of trouble just because you decided not to think much," she mused. It could also be so that the most fervent followers went to their graves never realizing that their god might have been - in fact - a criminal. Being a deity and a bad guy did not exclude one another. 

"Well, in your case... maybe with people like me and you... we do not need gods. Though I would like to believe that occasionally things happen at the right time and place and just the way they should be," she finished. "Oh!" her face lit up, as she remembered something, she grinned. "Want to hear an old wisdom clad in somewhat... somewhat unpoetic truth?" she asked. 

Heph considered, she did not think she would enjoy believing that someone else's rules were all she had to do, but maybe the idea was just foreign other. She supposed she could see why it would be comforting or make certain decisions easier, although whether it really made the whole mess of life easier she had doubts about. "Maybe? Maybe it has nothing to do with whether or not you follow an uptight god but just whether you're the thinking type or not and if you're not you may believe or not." It was a conundrum, Heph felt there were so many wolves. She did not talk to most of them about matters like this, her own rather superficial attitude not lending itself well to such discussions but she found herself intrigued now that she had begun to ponder them. But perhaps a bit cynically she felt that wolves justified things retroactively, so much of their own thoughts and ideas might have been out of their control completely.

But she quickly turned her attention to the question. It sounded like an intriguing proposition and her tail swished a bit in curiosity. "Now that I've got to hear." She was poised to listen intently even if she wondered if she was perhaps about to be the subject of a rather unceremonious joke. The thought brought the curl of a slight smile to her features.

"Well, there is another line of thought called... pre... predestiny? Predestination!" Dwin made a little jump on the spot, when she got the word right. "It means that your fate is already written. No matter, what you do or where you go, you will not outrun your death," which was something you could look at from two different angles. Accept the inevitability of your fate and be miserable about it. Or have a "devil may care" attitude. 

Unfortuntely, this train of thought had completley wiped out the story she had wanted to share with Heph earlier. Try as she might, she could not recall, what it had been. "Uh... maybe another time then. I think I forgot it," she laughed at her own silliness. "I think - that's my mind's way of telling me that I need a rest," she smiled. "It was nice talking to you and maybe we run into each other again some time in the future?" she asked. 

I really forgot, what I was about to tell. :D Let's finish this and have another one, if either happen to be in the vicinity of Moontide or Brecheliant. I had a lot of fun with this! Thanks!

Heph was a little bit flummoxed at the idea of having everything determined. After all things like death, tragedy, was there really no escaping it, it just always had to be that way? Somehow that seemed worse than having something to place the blame on. "Hmm I agree that we can't escape death, but everything before? Wow." She spoke what came to mind but found her mind difficult to wrap around the idea.

Realizing they had been conversing for a time she grinned and nodded. "Yes! If I'm ever near your lake I'll give you a howl, and if you decide to brave the coast all you need to do is call." She did intend to travel far and wide and with that farewell set off, plenty of ideas to chew on.

Me too! :D and thank you ^__^